The blog is now back on.

http://markavery.info/2012/03/07/cats-sparrowhawks-pigeons/#comments
Mark has now put up a follow up blog on his site, lets hope we can get a more positive approach at finding ways to help deal with our problem.

Things seem to be going in a more positive direction.
Lets hope we can change non fanciers perceptions of us and what we do.
This can can only be good for us in the long and maybe will help us in finding a solution.

hi gary, i agree things might be learned from discussions with these people that might help our cause............ill keep checking on the posts and maybe try to add one or two myself.



remember your own pigeons tho gary, racing is not that far away now.........

I have just started to amass all my stuff for the loft now, just been doing some work on the sections today, got me wood for my box perches, I have got a job on tomorrow building a load of trellis and an arch for the mother in law and then weather permitting it's full steam ahead.
I think the Blog has already started to show some positivity I have also give a little insight into what we do.
I think we can learn much from each other and many people that may engage in the discussion have much more knowledge than us in these issues which may go some way in helping us find a solution.
It may also be a way to change some people perceptions of us fanciers and the fancy in general.
We can only try mate.

to me it seems like the same old s**t they dont want to yield in any manner not 1 suggestion of a way to deal with the problem and as for mr.averys tongue and cheek about being a falcon in another life ,well what a t**t it says it all for me just that one sentence........

added a post earlier, mr avery replied with some lame explaination............lets wait and see what his followers have to say now

I've been out working today, so not had much time at home.
I can say I tried, I ain't aiding no gratification to anyone.
But I can see it going to be the same old shit again. Reverting to cock arsed studies that are out of date.
I'm working on proving the sparrowhawk theory and just hope everyone keeps sending in the reports and photographs, so I can at least show the world that we are not inventing this problem.
But still they harp on about peregrines having very little effect on racing pigeon and then harps about racing pigeons being taken.

all these surveys these people do are worthless gary, how does some bloke with a clipboard have any idea how many pigeons are being killed by either a sparrow hawk or a perigrine....? total nonsence, which may placate the do gooders but the pigeon fanciers know differently.

all they do is quote surveys, total crap............

I agree mate.
But what seems to be the norm, they go into a few areas do a survey and then guestimate the rest of the country, which in itself is total bollocks.
We should do a survey on the worst hit lofts and then fabricate this as a true picture of the rest of the country and get some scholar to put his name to it. 15 grand later, hey presto.
But yet again in our case, it wouldn't be far off the truth.

Gaz b wrote:

I agree mate.
But what seems to be the norm, they go into a few areas do a survey and then guestimate the rest of the country, which in itself is total bollocks.
We should do a survey on the worst hit lofts and then fabricate this as a true picture of the rest of the country and get some scholar to put his name to it. 15 grand later, hey presto.
But yet again in our case, it wouldn't be far off the truth.

very true gary ...lots of brown envelopes changing hands im sure ....these surveys are not a true reflection and just how qualified are the people doing the surveys and are they un bias i wonder .........we need an independent survey but who will pay for it

Your right Darren. Anyone can do a survey, but to give the said survey any weight it has to enforced by a scholar who is known for their expertise in this area. Like a University Professor or someone well known in this field, the study then has to be presided over by this said authoritative figure.
Only then could it be considered to be used by peers in Parliament.
Here lies a big problem, because most of these scholars are sympathetic to the RSPB.
What we all need to do, is start writing letters to our MPs explaining the problem, making them aware that there is a problem and it's a serious one.
Ask them to help with our problem.
They will submit this letter to the DEFRA department.
We should make them aware that we are livestock breeders, they lay down rules that we should have a legal duty of care to our livestock.
If we do not vaccinate or neglect our livestock, then we are in fact in breach of their regulations and are liable to prosecution.
If we fail to take the right measures to protect our livestock, could this not also be deemed as neglect.
Also as livestock breeders, whose livestock are constantly preyed on by a protected species, which is protected by them and their laws, would this not also be deemed a conflict of interest and maybe claims for compensation for our losses would not also be in order, to enable our continuation.
By addressing our great financial losses.

no offence meant gary, and i know you and other fanciers have fully supported the petitiion etc...........but i must agree with what you have just said.

many years ago we had dealings with the local councilors who were to be honest total arseholes....they would promise you alsorts but when the time came did nothing.

i also learned that a paper petition is not worth the paper it is writen on, and as you say individual letters from people complaining about a problem are worth a lot more..........

I think this should be our next course action, as well as sending if possible photographs with the letter as this can only add more impact to the letter.
But here too lies a great a problem as fanciers won't take the time to sign a petition, so really what hope do we have, in all honesty of getting them to take the trouble to write a letter to their MP.
I know a good few will, but his really does not reflect the whole fancy.
This is where to be honest, the fancier becomes his own worst enemy.

if it was me gary, i would let the petition run itself.......people are still signing.


i would concentrate on your own pigeons as racing is nearly here, i think your banging your head agaionst a brick wall with some pigeon men who just want to bury their heads in the sand and leave it to others..........

People are mate, I'm not pushing it now like I was mate, this next week is crucial for me, If I don't get me loft sorted I'm goosed for another year.

ive been saying that about my new loft for two years now gary, its still not built........

I just need to get a few more bits and then I'm gonna crack on with it.

well just left my final reply on the matter and by god theres some plebs on their lol some extremists in the bop camp seem to have replied to marks blog

I thanked them for their time and don't want to get into any more, I just find it tedious and extremely unproductive.
It seems that they are also paying extremely close attention to this forum.
I have been contacted by someone in the States who has had good results from having a pet eagle owl, they even fly it in the vicinity of their loft and have also flown it around other fanciers lofts who have had problems, they take a mobile aviary and leave it with fanciers for the day who are experiencing Bop problems.
This may be be something worth considering.
I also know that some gamekeepers have adopted this method with great success.
Watch this space as they say.

a mobile flight would be ideal for a eagle owl gaz ...... me and the mrs are debating getting one

gaz you can see 99% of the answers from the bop lovers are obstinate what a jumped up load of bigots the only reasonable gentleman has been mike price and i take my hat off to him for that

Me and mine have been having a discussion this morning, but like she says I should get the loft up first and lets see how it goes from there.
But I am certainly warming to the idea.
When you think about the cost of decoys and all the other stupid contraptions maybe a live specimen could definitely earn it's keep.
I think maybe more investigation is definitely worth pursuing.