Darkning system for OB

Hi,
I have studied darkening system for young birds, how it impact body feather molt. But i don't know how it impacts old birds. Does it effect same for OB or OB has different behavior ?

as with the lightening system ( increase sunlight environment ) impact to start flight feather molt, does this system impact OB and YB both same way or differently ?

Thanks

Not sure. To stop OB's moulting the best way is to mate them.
Young birds leave as is until longest day of year. Then put lights on for the hours of the longest day. After racing they moult fast.

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Hi,
I have studied darkening system for young birds, how it impact body feather molt. But i don't know how it impacts old birds. Does it effect same for OB or OB has different behavior ?

as with the lightening system ( increase sunlight environment ) impact to start flight feather molt, does this system impact OB and YB both same way or differently ?

Thanks

First question  I would ask Tanveer is what you hope to achieve by doing such a thing etc. Anything thing of an unnatural nature is unnatural for me I'm   from my perspective if that makes sense in a pigeon sense. Seen people here play around with it, but come the end of the day no better or worse on average than those just sticking to the normal type ways in the end, come race day.

I am with you on this one Knackered.

Interfere with nature at your peril, maybe short term gain may mean long term problems.

Think many of the sports problems have arisen by doing so.

The commercial boys and some fanciers all with ulterior motives will do anything to obtain their aims to the detriment of both the pigeon and the sport.

Proven time and time again you can have success by treating the pigeons in the most natural way.

Nothing better than letting nature call the tune and in particular in the long run.

Regards.

Knackered , my only objective is to understand this system with age group. I live in Pakistan and as per our race schedule , I might need to do it for now and natural is the way good for us. but may be in future , I might need it. So asking question to take opinion about these systems to help me better understand how it works.

I do agree with you and Misty that natural is best way. I read on many sites that darkening system caused or can cause young bird loss. we manipulate with body clock of birds with these systems , so it can impact health too

Knackered wrote:

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Hi,
I have studied darkening system for young birds, how it impact body feather molt. But i don't know how it impacts old birds. Does it effect same for OB or OB has different behavior ?

as with the lightening system ( increase sunlight environment ) impact to start flight feather molt, does this system impact OB and YB both same way or differently ?

Thanks

First question  I would ask Tanveer is what you hope to achieve by doing such a thing etc. Anything thing of an unnatural nature is unnatural for me I'm   from my perspective if that makes sense in a pigeon sense. Seen people here play around with it, but come the end of the day no better or worse on average than those just sticking to the normal type ways in the end, come race day.

darkening young birds is to force them to moult, by tricking them its winter .........hence they will be like yearlings when racing starts.

darkening in my opinion not only forces them to look like yearlings, it also seems to make them mature quicker and behave like yearlings .

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Knackered , my only objective is to understand this system with age group. I live in Pakistan and as per our race schedule , I might need to do it for now and natural is the way good for us. but may be in future , I might need it. So asking question to take opinion about these systems to help me better understand how it works.

I do agree with you and Misty that natural is best way. I read on many sites that darkening system caused or can cause young bird loss. we manipulate with body clock of birds with these systems , so it can impact health too  

Knackered wrote:

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Hi,
I have studied darkening system for young birds, how it impact body feather molt. But i don't know how it impacts old birds. Does it effect same for OB or OB has different behavior ?

as with the lightening system ( increase sunlight environment ) impact to start flight feather molt, does this system impact OB and YB both same way or differently ?

Thanks

First question  I would ask Tanveer is what you hope to achieve by doing such a thing etc. Anything thing of an unnatural nature is unnatural for me I'm   from my perspective if that makes sense in a pigeon sense. Seen people here play around with it, but come the end of the day no better or worse on average than those just sticking to the normal type ways in the end, come race day.

OK nothing wrong in having a curious type mind/nature etc Tanveer sort of keeps the brain ticking over I suggest .

Yes David. True. Why the million dollar race and other one lofters do it.

The problem is with inter fearing with nature in any form is asking for trouble

Anyone who thinks the Widowhood and Darkness systems along with all the other
anti nature activities has not had a detrimental overall effect on our feathered friends are deluded.

It is only since fanciers started experimenting with all the fads that their overall health has now become such that there are very few pigeons that do not need propping up, health wise.

It is also nonsense that the darkness youngsters are unbeatable, the OLR use the system because it ensures that those left for the final race will all be in the same state of moult, if they did not many would be considered ( by many too wrong in the moult to go) which is also wrong, I won with young birds in all kinds of moult stages, most are won today by darkness youngsters because most use it.

As fanciers go against nature so will the sports problems increase.

Regards.

What a great, sensible and very truthful post Misty. 100% right. Bottles or packets won't produce winners... Will only have a detrimental effect further down the line.
Only healthy and conditioned pigeons win the most wanted races to win too.... from the shortest to the longest races. Paper bag winners are two a penny.
Bits of paper don't fly. Nor guarantee good pigeons, let alone winners.
Will argue that it takes 3-4 years to set up a good loft... 2 years to see where one is going.
Will wager that some pigeon are great flyers, and never bred a pigeon worth a jot. 'Homers' breed greats. Culls can breed winners.
Stef Van Reet used to just hold a pigeon to buy, and likewise when mating. Beusseart could relate to forms of given pigeon. Some mate by the eye, 'Corn to earth'!

Daz wrote:

What a great, sensible and very truthful post Misty. 100% right. Bottles or packets won't produce winners... Will only have a detrimental effect further down the line.
Only healthy and conditioned pigeons win the most wanted races to win too.... from the shortest to the longest races. Paper bag winners are two a penny.
Bits of paper don't fly. Nor guarantee good pigeons, let alone winners.
Will argue that it takes 3-4 years to set up a good loft... 2 years to see where one is going.
Will wager that some pigeon are great flyers, and never bred a pigeon worth a jot.  'Homers' breed greats. Culls can breed winners.
Stef Van Reet used to just hold a pigeon to buy, and likewise when mating. Beusseart could relate to forms of given pigeon. Some mate by the eye, 'Corn to earth'!

True But few are listening to what Misty suggests these day I suspect unfortunately Daz     . Spin & bling & all that scenario etc . Knew an icon in a local sense, had 3 pigeons that set him alight at the distance. 1 was a champion hen in a smash 500 mile race which bred no end of breeders in different lofts as such. 2nd one was that slow on race day you would weep in despair & actually flew till he was 6 years old to 2 different loft locations because of his trait in being slow & steady come what ever & for what I remember was a half brother to the first one mentioned & where she was small & neat in size, he was as big as a chook . 3rd one was a lovely red pied in nature, win a show type etc but was as dumb as horse sh**e to a degree, as one day we both went 50 odd miles to pick her up when she was reported down by the seaside here . So now one was called the Bourke hen one was called the Big bar a cock & last but not least one was called the Red pied hen     .

Was in Canada when Oscar explained that the Dark system works the same for old birds … as does the 'Light' system.
Personally feel too much muddling about and not, in reality, a shred of prove- as most things in pigeons - that results are better than would have been on the natural. Just that many good fancier have such systems. Same fancier would still be at the top of the ladder id going back to the systems of the 50's/6o's or before.

Of course they would Daz, and the pigeons far healthier and perform into their teens at times.

Regards.

Daz wrote:

Was in Canada when Oscar explained that the Dark system works the same for old birds … as does the 'Light' system.
Personally feel too much muddling about and not, in reality, a shred of prove- as most things in pigeons - that results are better than would have been on the natural. Just that many good fancier have such systems. Same fancier would still be at the top of the ladder id going back to the systems of the 50's/6o's or before.

True everyone thinks (most anyway, maybe) that every man & his dog these days ïn a pigeon sense has a computer/mobile phone & is a face book wizard, buys all the latest magic type potions, has the latest of fashion type strains & methods & buys every book under the sun to gain success come race day & will visit a Vet on a regular type basis for advise. But actually it's a total load of utter bollocks from my perspective on average.

As I stated before, one loft races usually use the dark system.

halcanada80 wrote:

As I stated before, one loft races usually use the dark system.

Well thats a wee bit of a problem I suspect Hal if one looks at the South African type race we all know well & what's happened with it in the past & what actually is happening there now as I speak .

Supposed to put all birds on equal footing. However many ways to cheat the system prior to sending the young. Age etc,.

Now, as must know, maybe some don't, many, say like the German fanciers (And others) send youngster having already flown the y/b's in club races etc.

Mind talking of most 'One loft'.
The S. African had a disaster eh!

Not very good returns in the South Africa million dollar pigeon race.
1548 birds basketed 296 returned. Only 3 on the day from 373 mile.
https://www.samdpr.c...resultList/MDPR

I did not know that!! Will look. Money auction for those birds!! Thanks for the info!

Been going on for years Daz.

Getting rid of rubbish instead of culling.

As for the African race, the Darkness System did not do them much good.

Regards,

MISTY wrote:

Been going on for years Daz.

Getting rid of rubbish instead of culling.

As for the African race, the Darkness System did not do them much good.

Regards,

Maybe ?????????????????????? worked for the winner there etc Misty but for the rest I suspect it had minimal effect in the big picture/long run. Darkness/light/widowhood/mated/perch means nothing in the end as such as it's just a money type race for a few fortunate types on average & the welfare of the pigeons doesn't even come into the equation come the end of the day from my perspective.

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Hi,
I have studied darkening system for young birds, how it impact body feather molt. But i don't know how it impacts old birds. Does it effect same for OB or OB has different behavior ?

as with the lightening system ( increase sunlight environment ) impact to start flight feather molt, does this system impact OB and YB both same way or differently ?

Thanks

it does not work in the same way as the old birds have already wintered ...you can put hens in with darkie ybs and they dont moult ...would be a waiste of time anyway theres nothing whatsoever to acieve from it in my opinion atb

oldstrain wrote:

tanveerhbaig wrote:

Hi,
I have studied darkening system for young birds, how it impact body feather molt. But i don't know how it impacts old birds. Does it effect same for OB or OB has different behavior ?

as with the lightening system ( increase sunlight environment ) impact to start flight feather molt, does this system impact OB and YB both same way or differently ?

Thanks

it does not work in the same way as the old birds have already wintered ...you can put hens in with darkie ybs and they dont moult ...would be a waiste of time anyway theres nothing whatsoever to acieve from it in my opinion atb

Know nothing about Tanveer's cycle of weather patterns in a local sense & when & how it may just effect his racing circle, come race day etc O/S . Here as an example little to be gained playing around on average playing around  & trying to get a fast moult over & done with type of thing before racing. Now       saw some one on another site     jumping up & down saying what happened with the South Africian race was cruel, because of the distance factor all being young bird types there. Nearly           posted a reply etc & said     he was talking through his **** some what, as we are rather fond of sending late breds down here     who hardly have dropped a flight as such 600 odd miles for the sheer enjoyment factor    . End of the story, it's not the distance factor that's a killer     its the management & training before hand that makes the race a total & utter disgrace of a race from my perspective    .   

Well, I believe nothing is better than fit, healthy and conditioned pigeons flown natural.
They are allowed to gain confidence in a safe environment, where the birds can easily trap if needs be.
Allowed a contented, stress-free life where they gain a natural love and which builds a protective desire to their, Perch and later nest box, Secretary, of two clubs, Stuart, 18 months ago what and where the birds came on what system. Darkness, etc., against natural.
He was mildly surprised but knew what the result would be. Though not the distance between First 'Winners; In the Top Five.

Winners Natural. Top Five: Natural about 3 to two. Top Ten Natural 7+ to 3.
Another thing we debate are Breaking points... One minute decides that they help. Next debate 'no use at all'.
Then the big one. Stuart flies both North and South, Different lofts. The one at home the other up the field.
South Rd he trains 2-3 times a week. Could only go one-way time-wise. He fairs O.k South Rd. Nothing to set the page alight.
Does very well North just sending races. Stu has always had an open loft up the field.
End of last year put another loft from his home up the field. No training. Did more than do well both Roads.
This year he will do - like I always did - send any either Road.

Daz wrote:

Well, I believe nothing is better than fit, healthy and conditioned pigeons flown natural.
They are allowed to gain confidence in a safe environment, where the birds can easily trap if needs be.
Allowed a contented, stress-free life where they gain a natural love and which builds a protective desire to their, Perch and later nest box, Secretary, of two clubs,  Stuart, 18 months ago what and where the birds came on what system. Darkness, etc., against natural.
He was mildly surprised but knew what the result would be. Though not the distance between First 'Winners; In the Top Five.

Winners Natural. Top Five: Natural about 3 to two. Top Ten Natural  7+ to 3.
Another thing we debate are Breaking points... One minute decides that they help. Next debate 'no use at all'.
Then the big one. Stuart flies both North and South, Different lofts. The one at home the other up the field.
South Rd he trains 2-3 times a week. Could only go one-way time-wise. He fairs O.k South Rd. Nothing to set the page alight.
Does very well North just sending races. Stu has always had an open loft up the field.
End of last year put another loft from his home up the field. No training. Did more than do well both Roads.
This year he will do - like I always did - send any either Road.

Bit simple that first line of yours etc Daz even thou true I suggest. Now as mentioned before, many down here fly 4/5 lines on a roundabout type system every year changing directions & may even toss every direction under the sun to boot to take the boredom factor out of going to the same toss point over & over. People talk about pigeons picking out some item as a marker to home, which is true to a degree but only for the last 100 miles maybe. Get into the distance scenario thou & all you have mentioned comes into play from my perspective & for what I have seen in a local sense    .