EYESIGN ??

yes don your right.....like i say i do take type of eye into cosideration when im pairing up but its not the main thing i base it on....i like to put opposites to each other, or at least ones that are different to each other......

Every body to there own method

DAVID wrote:

if a fancier gets a bird that wins well and looks at the eyes, hes going to read all sorts into it and then say the eye tells him this....i think half of it is covering their backs....dual purpose eye? anyone can say that....bet most have never seen a green eye or even if they have they wouldnt recognise one, or a violet eye too.....one things for certain don, a winner never has a bad eye.....

David, one thing has always botherd me about eye sign and its' educational quality of allowing the fancier to be able to tell whether a pigeon is a'good' one or not. You will have gathered by now that I am radical in my thinking and sometimes dare to question where others do not. When I do question, it is not because I ridicule the theory that someone is putting forward but how they arrived at that conclusion in the first place. During my time with pigeons I have learnt that there are 'very few, if any' theories that stand up to scrutiny and the fancier supporting this theory finds it difficult to explain or support his logic. First and foremost I believe that these are only theories and not an exact science, once we establish that line of thinking it becomes easy to question the validity of any theory.
The thought that has always intrigued me is that if eye sign is all that it is said to be then why aren't its' believers and practioners the best pigeon men in the land. Why, if they can spot breeders a mile off, dont they breed winners every time ? why, if it is such a pointer to a birds racing ability dont they have the best racers in the area? All valid questions I believe.
I have NEVER come across a person who is an eye sign 'expert' who is also a top pigeon man who can breed winners at will just by looking at a pigeons eye and I would suggest that if they are owners of such birds then it is the basket that has produced those birds and not the owners knowledge of eye sign.
Would you not expect it to follow that the top eye sign men are ALWAYS the top pigeon men?
One of the top men on eye sign in this area was Brian May of Rotherham who was a personal friend of mine, we had long discussions about the validity of this theory and on most occasions he would say what you have quoted ' a winner never has a bad eye'...........but are there good eyes that will never be winners?.
I am sure that you are genuine in your belief of the Eye Sign theory and I respect that, however, you are welcome to come over and visit me and appraise my birds on eye sign and their potential as racers.
I have to confess that I have no knowledge of this theory and whilst I may appear to disbelive it, I have every respect for the fanciers who do.
There are many things that I am ignorant of in spite of my years in this game and I am always very appreciative of any knowledge or education that I can add to my 'store' of pigeon experience.
I sincerely hope that you or other collegues do not take my post as being one that ridicules the theory and I would be more than happy to have the logic of it explained to me.
Malcolm.

Thanx for your comment Chanco, i believe what you have said.

hi malcolm, i will get back to you on your thoughts on eyesign, i was in the middle of replying when i touched something and it all went off......

Hi Malcolm

I respect what you have said in your post but the one thing i will say is the best eyesign will always be the basket

As I have said before i am just curious about this subject and i know nothing about it even thou i have been interested in this subject for almost 30 years

As they say curiocity kills the cat

Don Webb wrote:

Hi Malcolm

I respect what you have said in your post but the one thing i will say is the best eyesign will always be the basket

As I have said before i am just curious about this subject and i know nothing about it even thou i have been interested in this subject for almost 30 years

As they say curiocity kills the cat

Hi Don,
I have always found this to be a very difficult subject to discuss, mainly because eye sign belivers all appear to have read from the same book and use the same jargon and terms whenever they talk about it. At one time I spoke about this to a guy who was, in fact, a qualified Opthalmist and when I mentioned to him such things as circles of corelation he just laughed at me and said it was all rubbish. Now, I would not venture to say that it was all rubbish but I need to be convinced that the theory is capable of holding water.
You can talk pigeon men into believing anything, just look at the amount of medicines we buy, tonics and pick me-ups you name it and you can find a pigeon man to buy it. In my time I have been exposed to the Wing theory, Throat theory, Tail theory, Form spots, warm feet etc etc. and there was not one occasion that any logic could have been applied to the belief because it was just an opinion and not a science.
Only last year a guy living two doors away from me started up keeping a few birds that he got from a pigeon keeping mate. It was not long before he was telling me all kinds of things that his mate had told him, most of it absolute rubbish. He asked me to go over and see his birds as soon as he could get them off the house roof! when he did, he picked up a pigeon opened its' wing, held it up to the light, ran his hands over its' back and then proceeded to look at its' eye. before handing it to me. I asked him what he had noticed about the pigeon after its' examination, he replied " What do you mean"? I told him that there is much to see about the bird if you only know what to look for. Inspecting the bird I first told him that the bird was very late bred, perhaps August, I told him that it had come from a loft where the fancier probably had no routine as regard feeding, I told him that the breeder was almost certainly right handed and in its' very short life it had spent nights out on the roof. (being an experienced fancier I am sure you know what I am talking about) but this guy had seen his mate do this opening of wing thing and just copied him, giving the impression that he knew about pigeons! When I explained how I could tell all these things just by a casual inspection he just looked at me as though I was a nutcase!
A perfect example of someone who knows' nothing but absorbs everything that he is told because he dosen't want to appear as though he knows' nothing. And I think it would be true to say that there are those who follow the eye sign theory blindly because someone has had a good stab at convincing them that it all perfectly true and scientific.
Now I have said that for those who believe it I have nothing but respect for their opinion, and I believe they have a right to express what they believe. Indeed, it would be a poorer place if we all believed the same.
I hope this post will encourage those who claim to have faith in their ability to read 'eyes' to debate their reasons and explain their logic in doing so, for I myself would like to understand the theory.
I have a lot to learn yet and once you recognise that fact then the road to becoming a good fancier seems suddenly easier.
Just my opinion.........................
Malcolm.

Ok eyesign men, if you can cast your mind back some forty years or so, does anyone remember Paul Sion, I think he was French.
This man won everything with his birds Club Nationals and Internationals, yet most of his birds had Bull eyes.
This tends to dismiss the eyesign theory.

Hi bricoux i think it were Robert Sion, from tourcoing, Norhern France.
What is bull eyes ?

hi niel, this is whats called a bull eye.....

even though bull eyes have the dark covering it means nothing to eyesign men as far as i know as beyond that there is still the eyesign and iris colour....and as far as i know a bull eye to an eyesign man is no less an eye, just because its a bull it can still be judged as good or bad.

Thanx Dave, , no sign at all !!

there is neil, its just beyond the dark film....strong light and eye glass will still see the eye sign ...

my chequer white cock that won andrezel last year also has a bull eye

DAVID wrote:

there is neil, its just beyond the dark film....strong light and eye glass will still see the eye sign ...

So its windows is just tinted ?

yes ian, as far as i know many winners have a bull eye....as far as i know it doesnt mean they are no good just because they have this....proves it with yours doesnt it.....

Grizzle wrote:

DAVID wrote:

there is neil, its just beyond the dark film....strong light and eye glass will still see the eye sign ...

So its windows is just tinted ?

yes niel exactly that....

yes david wish i had a loft full of them

as long as they win it doesnt matter what eyes they have to me....the only thing that i do cosider is when it comes to breeding and as part of my decision i would cosider what im putting together....eyesign is not the main thing i decide my pairings on as i also like to put a cheq to a blue as this is what i see done when looking at certain pedigrees of winners...just my opinion.

why a chequer to blue david why not winner to winner

simple answer ian....I AINT GOT NONE.....

dont know why though but i dont really like to put two blues together altho i have done it last year and this year because i had no choice.

but you will have i dont doubt that

why

why what ian ? do you mean why did i have no choice ? if so i had no choice because i only had 6 yearlings to pair up and 4 were cheqs and 2 blues....coupled with the fact i dont put eyes similar or the same to each other it didnt leave much choice for me...when i get more birds things will change though...