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 Breeding by the phases of the MOON

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blueskylofts
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PostSubject: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:53 am

Has anyone heard of pairing one's birds by the phases of the MOON?

I had not until yesterday when I went to spend part of the day with a French friend of mine who also races pigeons.

I have to say, when he started explaining how it works, at first I thought 'What a load of old Tosh'. But as he went on, I could see what he was on about, if not fully understand it.

Apparently nearly all French gardeners garden by the moon's cycle. Planting things at a certain time of the lunar month, and even picking veggies at a particular time of the lunar month.

We have to bear in mind - the 'normal' human month is around 30 - 31 days - but the Lunar month is ALWAYS 28 days.

This mate of mine, said you can plan the sexes of your young birds much more easily by the moon. I am not sure how it works, but I wondered if anyone else knows anything about doing things by the phases of the moon, including running your loft.

I am sure most of you are going to say "what a load of bull .....t" But I would like to hear what you have to say.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 am

My birds are usually active most of the night of a full moon. Ummm..could be with me howling at it wakes them?
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:05 pm

I think 2 ybs I bred for Darren this season just gone were hatched on a full moon, I think they raced ok........

(correct me if I`m wrong Darren ...lol)
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:27 pm

last year david I had 6 ybs hatched on full moon 5 are still in the loft after yb racing and ob season as yearlings
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:12 pm

As far as I understand things - the day they hatched has nothing to do with anything.

It is the day the hen was fertilised.

Again, from what I understand about breeding pigeons. If the couple know each other and get on well - the most important days are the 3rd, 4th and 5th day after putting them together that count.

I could go into it in much greater detail, but won't for now.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:18 pm

no it does not phil just putting it out their atb
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:33 pm

end of the day, a theory is just that..........a theory. Razz Razz cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:21 am

The thing is David - it is not a theory!

We all know that the moon has a great effect on the oceans of the world. Why wouldn't the moon have an equal effect on other things, like humans and animals, who are mainly water.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:27 am

exactly why I mentioned my full moon hatched babies phil ...come on m8 you cany have it all ways lol! why would the moon not have an effect on newborn animals if it has any bearing at all or is it just reserved for mating ...atb Darren at werewolf lofts Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:40 am

blueskylofts wrote:
The thing is David - it is not a theory!

We all know that the moon has a great effect on the oceans of the world.  Why wouldn't the moon have an equal effect on other things, like humans and animals, who are mainly water.

Phil

I don't know it has any effect on oceans of the world, I hear "scientists" claiming this and that, but I suppose its on a par with the old "global warming " scam, our diesel cars are effecting the weather and making the world warmer.........truth is, its a natural cycle, nature....but our corrupt government see it as a way to control us and make money from us.

I suppose 4 x 4 vehicles were responsible for bringing about the ice age, and the decline of dinasours
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:52 am

Of course Darren you are right.

I do not know for sure yet, but I am sure a moment when a baby is born within the lunar cycle may have some effect on it being a good one or a bad one.

BUT - as we all know, there is nothing 100% for sure in pigeon racing. Or maybe there is but we do not understand enough about pigeon behaviour in its natural form yet.

I think somewhere we got our wires crossed - I wasn't saying that if a young pigeon was born on a full moon, it would not be any good. I was just trying to say that was not what I was talking about.

I am still not too sure of my facts yet, but I am looking into the whole aspect and maybe one day, I will have some answers.

I think it is best to drop the subject for now as most people in England think that this moon thing is a load of old rubbish.

Phil

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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:13 am

it may well have some benefits, there are groups who worship the moon and sun arnt there, I think the only thing a pigeon fancier could do to test this idea out is to actually do it, pair up on full moon, hatch on full moon etc, then race the young birds.....I reckon this will need to be done over a few year period and probably by a few fanciers.

see what the results are.
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:08 pm

best way is to log all dates ie pairing and laying and hatching which I do its all loged in a a4 diary each year ...I may well try it this year actually pair up on the eve of the full moon ...we must all have a percentage that hatch on a full moon so why don't we write them down and see how those particular babies perform and report back with the findings ...the birds took a couple of cards not ripping trees up but that was me I was at fault with my management but to have 5/6 left to race again as 2 year olds is a good percentage and would indicate they have some ability maybe a lot more in someone elses hands atb
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:32 pm

Interesting Subject this Moon Breeding, read about it once a few Years ago but never actually tried it, would be interested in hearing how Trials go.

Steve.
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:35 am

Moon breeding? Full moon? Ahem.. word lunatic comes from that?
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:44 pm

In reality it is a bit more complicated than that.

Most of us know that the the part of the moon we see, gets bigger and smaller.  Waxing when the moon looks bigger and Waning when the moon looks as if it is getting smaller!

When I say gets bigger and smaller - I really mean the brighter bit gets bigger or smaller.  The moon stays the same actual size all the time, it is only the bit that is reflected by the sun that we see.

Also - I am not talking about getting (or trying to get) great pigeons because you mate them at the full moon.  No not at all.

I am talking about trying to maximise your chances of getting cocks or hens depending upon when you mate/pair up your pigeons.  For example we are very short of hens and if I could breed a lot more females in 2018 than males, that would be great.

Another thing - what ever you are going to use, e.g.  the Full Moon or the moon becoming closer to or further away from the earth, you need to allow three to five days before when you are thinking about bringing your birds together.  Let's say the full moon is on 15th of a month, you need to be bringing your birds together no later than 12th.

I am really looking into the whole concept of lunar breeding at the moment and when I find out some concrete facts I'll let you know if you are interested.  But of course if, as I think will happen, most of you just poo-poo the affair, I can keep whatever I find to myself!

I suspect it will be a standard case of pigeon men saying things like 'what I have been doing for years has worked so why change it'.  

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:24 pm

would be good to know yer findings phil anything pigeon is of interest atb
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Very interesting concept. I will pair up later part of December. As suggested above. But what are you looking for? If one mates up 14 pairs (as I will) obviously they cannot be all exceptional. Would you figure it a success if percentage wise, more good than bad were produced? Another factor in my particular case is that my 4 best racers were added to the stock loft. Cocks. They will have different hens for next year. I really cannot see with those factors involved how to rate moon mating's. Too many variables. Or do you suggest a criteria? Always interesting!
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:03 pm

halcanada wrote:
Very interesting concept. I will pair up later part of December. As suggested above. But what are you looking for? If one mates up 14 pairs (as I will) obviously they cannot be all exceptional. Would you figure  it a success if percentage wise, more good than bad were produced? Another factor in my particular case is that my 4 best racers were added to the stock loft. Cocks. They will have different hens for next year. I really cannot see with those factors involved how to rate moon mating's. Too many variables. Or do you suggest a criteria? Always interesting!



Hal - we are REALLY busy right now packing for our big move back to the UK in about 10 days time. Plus, I am only just learning about all this stuff myself and an not sore of the possibilities.

BUT as soon as I can give you more details I will. If anyone can read French, I can really recommend a super book all about the Lunar Cycles and a full explanation about a Lunar Calendar.

Must go and eat now.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:06 am

No, cannot read French. Used to read Spanish. Was not trying to corner you on the lunar thing, just extremely interested. I shudder now at some methods and theories I have used in the past. But if no stone is upturned no worm is found.
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:48 am

The thing is Hal - this is NOT a theory - it is ALL natures FACTS.

We already know what the moon does to the seas and ocean of the world.

Most times, when it is a full moon, I do not sleep very well, and I know that is the same for a lot of people.

On the other hand, I have not yet heard of, or met any, non-French person that knows anything or much about this subject.

I will try and email my French friend that does know a LOT about this stuff and ask him to give me a few basics.

As soon as I know, I will pass the info on to those who are interested.

Phil

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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:22 pm

Phil. Intrigues me. So did a Google search. The moon does affect all forms of life. One fellow in the UK years back, Belding I believe, Yorkshire man, wrote a book were he mentioned mating birds to coincide with a full moon to ensure really good youngsters. He has passed on now I think, but his book is for sale. "Racing Pigeons" I think the name is. Fact or fancy, do not know. Open mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:54 pm

yes I remember him hal, dv belding if im not mistaken......I have a box full of old pigeon pictorials with his monthly articles in, they make very good reading.

like Darren said, a few ybs he got off me this year were hatched on the full moon, and they made nice birds which raced pretty good, so its worth experimenting I would think.
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:29 pm

I think we need not worry about using the moon to help produce 'Good Strong' birds.  I think that one is easily achieved.

What I am most concerned with, is being able to almost 'Predict' what SEX and what type of pigeon we are producing (or more to the point - what type and sex our mated birds are producing for us).

When I say what 'type of pigeon we are producing’, I am talking about attributes such as strength, intelligence, determination, courage, stamina, health, and what's known as 'conformation' in the horse and animal world.

You guys have been talking about when the egg was hatched or when the egg was laid.  As far as I can tell from my small understanding and research I have done so far, everything hinges around the time the egg was fertilised.  I am not saying that a bird that 'hatched' on a full moon is not going to be a good strong bird, or even possibly when it was laid.  I am talking about getting right down to the nuts and bolts of the thing.  Of course, as with every living thing, the most critical point is the moment of fertilisation/conception.

Now, this is where my pigeon biology is a bit weak. But, I do know that, as long as the cock and hen we are talking about are happy with each other, ie, cooing and kissing, then the most important days are the Fifth, Fourth and Third days after you have put them together.  Apparently, if you had to, you could split the couple up after six days and you would still get two fertile eggs.

On YouTube there are some clips from a really famous and successful Irish pigeon man called Peter Martin who uses the 'bull' system for 90% of his top stock birds.  Follow this link to find the video clip I am talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPHxTC_4_o&t=644s

There are only a few YouTube clips by Peter so it shouldn't be too difficult to find.  

So, getting back to our lunar theory, and bearing in mind we are talking about the moment of conception, I think it would be prudent to put the birds together for a few days and study them.  If you can see they are getting on well, then you can separate them again until you are ready.  Likewise, if you know that this particular pair have been together before, and have mated and produced well, this first stage can be dispensed with.

OK, so, we have a bunch of pigeons which we know will get on, and are likely to start cooing and making up, followed by treading, fairly soon after they have been put together.

If you presume and believe what I believe, which is that the critical point is the point of fertilisation, then you need to put your birds together three or four days before the 'critical moment' which might be the full moon.  I am saying 'might be the full moon' because there are other phases of the moon which can be equally important.  


An egg is not fertilised when the cock is treading the hen, the hen deposits the male sperm in a special place within her reproductive organs and the egg is not fertilised until moments before laying.

Basically what happens is, the liquid part of the egg is pushed by muscular contraction (something like Peristalsis) down a tube which is called the oviduct.  About Halfway down the oviduct the egg is THEN fertilised, the fertilised embryo is then carried on down the oviduct and has its shell put on, then it is laid.  That is why – if you can get to a freshly laid egg – pigeons or chicken – quickly enough, the egg is still a bit soft.

So the time of fertilisation and the time of laying is no more than a few minutes apart.  Previously I said the moment of laying is not important but, as I have just discussed, the moment of fertilisation and the moment that the egg is laid, is only a short time between each other.  So for the sake of argument – we can say they are the ‘Same’.

So, to all intents and purposes, despite what I said at the outset of this posting, for the purposes of this discussion we can presume that the moment of fertilisation and the moment the egg is laid are almost the same.

I have some interesting real-life experiences to tell you, but I had better give you some time to take all this in.

Phil
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PostSubject: Re: Breeding by the phases of the MOON   Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:37 pm

so really speaking you need to pair 5 days before a full moon ...most eggs are laid around 7/10 days of pairing especially old pairs ...some really good info their phil ,thanks
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