Sport on decline.

American, Ken Easley, says one loft races are helping the sport grow, attract interest. He raced in Siberia for a year or two then back to the US. Started with a German pigeon, from Klaus, who had sent one bird to the US. It won a large open race. He himself has won many. As his birds have for others. His theory one good cock, one good hen. Test the young. Cross back in. Keeps the genetics from the winners in the family.

Many roads to Rome Hal.

Many winners never breed anything or the sport would be too easy.

Winning genes are passed on through brothers and sisters to winners as often as the winners.

Genes both winning and also rans run throughout every so called breed.

What works for one may be futile for another.

Luck as much as anything plays a major part.


As for OLRs our sport has not enough members (and reducing greatly year on year) for them to have any real impact.

Our sport lost it's way45 years ago and is now beyond saving in any reasonable manner, the only ones left will be the monied people who eventually ruin everything they become involved in.

For every fancier having great success with one system there will be a better one doing the opposite.

That is what makes the sport, ORIGINALLY, a most enjoyable one.


Regards.

Misty

I have to agree with you on the points you raised

But the biggest thing in this country is any new starters find it difficult to get going with all the disappointments and having to fly against the best from the start

Another massive concern is the cost and i don't mean pigeons I mean equipment just getting things into place before pigeons are obtained is a big cost

Once a working mans sport to an out off working mans price

Don Webb wrote:

Misty

I have to agree with you on the points you raised

But the biggest thing in this country is any new starters find it difficult to get going with all the disappointments and having to fly against the best from the start

Another massive concern is the cost and i don't mean pigeons I mean equipment just getting things into place before pigeons are obtained is a big cost

Once a working mans sport to an out off working mans price  

Tend to agree also Don, sadly Listen to the local Vet here & one needs to just about take out a mortgage on ones house just to get stated etc with special type potions & vaccines. End of the day just  to many pressure points from other sources these days I'm    (wife/kids/education/house/time/holidays/food on the table) for the average man to even consider/think about taking up the sport of pigeon racing I suggest/suspect.  

I think one of the problems is the manner our sport is portrayed.

Lofts like houses.

Pigeons costing thousands of pounds.

Pigeons needing many of the over 200 aids to win and keep the pigeons healthy etc;

Along with a load of rubbish as to what one actually needs to be involved.

A young person could be set up in our area with everything needed with little or no cost, the grass root fanciers would help in any way necessary.

Afraid the young people that have been set up over the past few years have had to pack in for reasons relative to their future earnings etc; and looking towards un feathered "birds".

The vast majority of the youth of today are virtual reality orientated.

I do not know one grass root fancier who would not willingly to help any youngster.

Wish things were different.

Regards.

OOOH, 20 years or so ago, I tested some Factories and concerns regards 'pigeon Racing'!
It was two-fold or more idea — days when 'Spot the Ball' etc. and the like. When pigeon racing results would be printed every week in the local papers, we were to print out the ring numbers where they could phone a ring number.
Would have a write up each week and results — a bit of information about pigeons and owners.
The local paper was interested. B.P. wanted between 40% to 50% of phone calls. Depending on how it grew. Would be a little setting up. Winners got percentage 1st four placings. Factories and other corporate concerns would race as a team and a league set up.
(Like the 'Bookies did'!). Their' birds ring numbers would be bought at the beginning of the season. They were to pay an original price for any birds sent, plus £5 or £10 each week. I was surprised by how many were interested.

The cost of one phone call to enter a bet. Indeed as many as one chose to at a pound a ring number. It was an absolute win / win situation for the club / fed even. It would mean training and races paid for upfront. Plus some cash each week going into the coffers.
So after much work, time and thought. Meet people it seemed ago that would cost nothing and put money up.

Why didn't it go, take off! The fanciers were terrified that they might have to be involved. The worried where the money would go and who would treasure it etc. Indeed very many stupid and lame excuses - not even seldom, the voice saying the normal 'Well I think it is a good idea .. or 'Well I would, but its the others.

Think the best idea brought forward 45 years ago was for fanciers to adopt a youngster and let them participate in all activities in their lofts, without having to contribute to the upkeep etc;

Not take them on as partners but apprentices, as if they were taken on as junior partners there could be problems regarding ownership etc;

They could come and go at will but gain an incite into the enjoyment in participating.

I have attempted to get youngsters interested but they only show a short term interest with all the other alternatives most of which are debatable for their futures.

Can see no way in which to get enough youngsters interested to keep the sport in a viable position.

Regards.

I packed in, in 1986 and was away from pigeons until 2008, and noticed the decline..........there used to be a pigeon loft in every street, now i rarely see a loft in a garden etc

Of course it is on the decline we all knew that years ago . The old times are obviously gone or going but we just have got to accept it and enjoy what we have . Like david says no lofts on each street or estate's because kids are into internet, playstation ect ect. They don't even play football on street corners now . So like I said just enjoy what we have left for how ever long

Pity peel bros afraid you are right.

Every one now only interested in what is left and no interest in the future, that is why the sport is in the state it is, been the same for over 45 years.


Regards.

You are right about garden lofts David.

Just counted the ones that were within throwing distance of my loft in gardens not two many years ago.

There were eight, now none.

On the allotments their were twice as many as now.

Not only that, but many fanciers are now not youngsters but ready for packing in for one reason or another.

Regards.

peel bros wrote:

Of course it is on the decline we all knew that years ago . The old times are obviously gone or going but we just have got to accept it and enjoy what we have . Like david says no lofts on each street or estate's because kids are into internet,  playstation ect ect. They don't even play football on street corners now . So like I said just enjoy what we have left for how ever long

Geordie mate here Ray still talks about his life on an allotment as such with fondness etc. The joy of walking a mile through the snow with a bucket of hot water & just hoping it didn't freeze up by the time he got there . Not all bad thou 20 odd different type lofts, with 20 odd different type natures attached on site. One being John Rumney who he still keeps in contact with for the enjoyment factor .

It is also very much the cost. Yes, the phone and earphones and dabbling an electrical box have led the youngsters to have different interests!

However, 70% of the nation are struggling to pay bills and to get out of hock.
Ok. a married fellow has 2-3 kids. He earns £380 per week — less stoppages. There is a £680 per month mortgage. So bang goes another £170 per week! Has - whether needed or not a car: food, electric, gas and water bills and other essentials. Now there is about £70 left. Mind there may be loans that have to be pay.
Schools take at least £5 a week from his kids, so bang goes another £15. They, want Nike gear like other kids, laptops and phone. Mums say all kids should have a mobile phone for safety. Phew! There could be severe problems there.
Indebt now! Mind the wife brings home £130 - £150 per week so that more than helps So far the couple argue about what the £45 in their hand this week should go to /on!
Mum says cars cost £8 a week tax. £30 odd a week insurance. Fuel, well they have to have juice in the tanks, or make hols in the floor and wear out the shoes quicker pushing it!.
Pigeon food! Wife is not a happy cookie there! Waste of hard-earned money they haven't got. Train them, eh! She argues Kids come first, and points out what she has had to do without to make ends meet!
Gosh and that's just the start of it!

Sorry Daz, cannot agree that costs are a major problem.

The figures regarding those struggling to pay their way does not reflect why they cannot.

Many attempting to live above their means to keep up with the Joneses, drug related and the bone idle, along with those with other self inflicted illnesses.

I had five siblings, one working father and mother who was aware what we could and could not afford.

I had many pets from a very young age, most cost nothing to feed, my feathered friends got green peas and rice and bread to start with until at twelve I got two jobs delivering groceries and meat.

I built my own loft from reclaimed timber and belting from the pit conveyor belts, the latter the best rain retardant possible.

Times are far easier for any youngster today to get involved in our sport and for little cost.

They are not interested because w have not made any real effort to encourage them.

Before I started racing our feathered friends I would go and c watch other fanciers both time in for races and also at other times, today fanciers have their lofts shut up 90% of the time to keep the poor dears calm etc;

There is one thing that has ruined our sport APATHY.

Regards.

Misty quote 'many attempting to live above their means to keep up with the Joneses',
As for 'drug-related and the bone idle, along with those with other self-inflicted illnesses'. That may well have a bearing. Costs.
Yet that is also a sign of the times.

As a good friend once said, 'We can't compare our lifestyles or the way of life in past era's. Times were different' That is so very true.
Fortunately, we couldn't go to a 'Hole in the wall' and draw money. Couldn't ask for instant 'Credit' and have it instantaneously! Nor did we have 'Keeping up with the Jones'! Nigh all were in the same boat — the walk of life.
Golly back in the fifties, there was very few cars going up my street - aside from the main road. We could sit on a trolley. In the middle if most streets, and go downhill. Or a Book on a Roller skate.
I can count on my fingers how many had a car. Just too taxi services - Mostly going back and forth to the American airbases.

A little better in the early sixties. Mind my age group were working and paying boards.
Indeed the very actual cost of living was by far very much lighter than today. I remember most of us had to Hand me downs from elder brother/sister. Jumpers bought at a 'Jumble Sale' and picked into a ball for knitting .. Or pupils at school telling you it was once their Shirt, trousers you were wearing lol
Gosh, I kid you not, I often had jumpers or socks dined with different colours. Indeed full of granny knots as mum just tied the next bit of wool lol. And much more. Sunday lunch was the only time you saw a bit of meat! Not that very often either lol.
Next day Bubble and Squeak. Sarnies Luncheon meat, Haslet. Yulk Tripe!
Remember well having stale bread for breakfast. Some times with a mould pattern. Where Evaporated tinned milk, or nestle milk, with warm water poured over.
Yet, 1955 was the most healthy people ever were.
When dad could buy a pigeon, once in a while for 2/-d or 2/6d Pigeons were never overfed, that's for sure.
Good times raid the rubbish tip for spare bike parts. Indeed that was where most of my families bikes came fro, except two from the U.S.A. base when dad worked there for a brief while.

No! It was a time of HAVING make do. Use your brains and listen to good advice.
When we HAD to make do and make our enjoyments. Gosh, fancy pigeons or such was a boon!
Gosh in winter, and when dad had ALL windows a little open, I waited, eagerly, for him to come home from doing the late shift on the buses so that he could put his overcoat on my sheet with an old worn-out blanket lol.
Not so today, Misty. Any and everything has a 'Price' attached. Families WANT as what they call 'Their right' to be on parr I grant you. But then, as I say, it is the times we live in.

That does not excuse those that want without giving, and those that get themselves into un necessary problems.

In the 40s and 50s of course it was a different set of circumstances, there had been a war to contend with.

We played football with a tennis ball using gate posts as goals, we used pigs bladders for football, we made all our own entertainments, dust bins for cricket as wickets and a lump of wood for a bat, could write a book on the conditions in that era but it has nothing to do with the present circumstances.

Parents in the main were responsible with the means they had and it was a case of make do and mend.

There was no welfare state as such as there is today.

One example of today, a terrorists parents are receiving £2515.00 a month after moving to LIBYA.

The figures regarding poverty are not reflective of why they are in the state they are, too many know how to manipulate the rules.

The fact is there are too many wanting a free ride along with those that want things they cannot afford .

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

That does not excuse those that want without giving, and those that get themselves into un necessary problems.

In the 40s and 50s of course it was a different set of circumstances, there had been a war to contend with.

We played football with a tennis ball using gate posts as goals, we used pigs bladders for football, we made all our own entertainments, dust bins for cricket as wickets and a lump of wood for a bat, could write a book on the conditions in that era but it has nothing to do with the present circumstances.

Parents in the main were responsible with the means they had and it was a case of make do and mend.

There was no welfare state as such as there is today.
 
One example of today, a terrorists parents are receiving £2515.00 a month after moving to LIBYA.

The figures regarding poverty are not reflective of why they are in the state they are, too many know how to manipulate the rules.

The fact is there are too many wanting a free ride along with those that want  things they cannot afford .

Regards.
 

Many good valued thoughts put forward here etc by everyone from my perspective with the problems our sport is having sadly. Now, 6.30 this morning here I was over at the local hospital with my wife, as she had to have a tooth pulled out by one of those specialist type blokes as it was beyond the skills of her normal type dentist. Gave me a bill to pay I'm to just start the morning off & get me in a good mood & before she could be admitted of 1614 Dollars for one tooth. Hang on I said I'm only an old pensioner type & all I have is 99 dollars & a dollar of loose change my mate Barnie decided not to take from me     here with his kindness . Ok we will accept that they said, seeing as you appear to be an old fool type with the shacks as such . End of the story when I left the car park there (another rort) & put my ticket in the machine to make the boom gates go up to then leave nothing happened I'm & I had one giant of a man in a truck behind me offering his advise/wisdom which I just couldn't repeat here as such       . All up a most interesting type morning for me, but one I would be most happy not to repeat again type of thing    .  

MISTY wrote:

That does not excuse those that want without giving, and those that get themselves into un necessary problems.

In the 40s and 50s of course it was a different set of circumstances, there had been a war to contend with.

We played football with a tennis ball using gate posts as goals, we used pigs bladders for football, we made all our own entertainments, dust bins for cricket as wickets and a lump of wood for a bat, could write a book on the conditions in that era but it has nothing to do with the present circumstances.

Parents in the main were responsible with the means they had and it was a case of make do and mend.

There was no welfare state as such as there is today.
 
One example of today, a terrorists parents are receiving £2515.00 a month after moving to LIBYA.

The figures regarding poverty are not reflective of why they are in the state they are, too many know how to manipulate the rules.

The fact is there are too many wanting a free ride along with those that want  things they cannot afford .

Regards.
 

We belong to a bygone era I suggest these days etc Misty I'm unfortunately. Talk to the modern type brigade as such these days, how we used to sent our birds away by train to race for the sheer enjoyment factor & before most even had cars for transport, they just think we have no value now & should forget how things were back then & just go all modern now with our way of thinking . Now     2515 pound etc     a month      where oh where as such     can I apply for that freebee    .

MISTY wrote:

You are right about garden lofts David.

Just counted the ones that were within throwing distance of my loft in gardens not two many years ago.

There were eight, now none.

On the allotments their were twice as many as now.

Not only that, but many fanciers are now not youngsters but ready for packing in for one reason or another.

Regards.

same here misty, when i was a teenager starting out with a few pigeons, there were pigeon men all over the estate, who belonged to local clubs, there were half a dozen virtually within throwing distance .........now those fanciers are gone, and all but one or two of the clubs too . like rays says, youngsters are more interested in sat in the house playing computer games or on their phones, they have no one to introduce them into pigeons, a family member or neighbor etc ...

David wrote:

MISTY wrote:

You are right about garden lofts David.

Just counted the ones that were within throwing distance of my loft in gardens not two many years ago.

There were eight, now none.

On the allotments their were twice as many as now.

Not only that, but many fanciers are now not youngsters but ready for packing in for one reason or another.

Regards.

same here misty, when i was a teenager starting out with a few pigeons, there were pigeon men all over the estate, who belonged to local clubs, there were half a dozen virtually within throwing distance .........now those fanciers are gone, and all but one or two of the clubs too .   like rays says, youngsters are more interested in sat in the house playing computer games or on their phones, they have no one to introduce them into pigeons, a family member or neighbor etc ...

I think of those that may have joined our sport over the last 5 years & those that may just join in the next 5 years etc & ponder some what, how many will still be involved in the sport in the following 50 year type celebration party as such .

Agree regards the decline, and the now ways of youngster - maybe the older, soon to retire could be a better catchment for those seeking a hobby.

But the cost today - not really the set up and gaining birds - but the daily/weekly costs are a price too far for all too many. Feed, Training (waste of time but 99% were be told to do so - price of fuel)
Membership is ok... bur sending 10 birds to club races- £10 + Nationals!

then the silly notion that you have to send a lot to compete with others who do. Then breeding too many because of expected loses c- very disheartening.

Ok we often say 'Costs! What about Golf etc. and other. But then those are over the cost raising children and mortgages in the main. Indeed a large percentage look forward to when they retire etc.

Let's do the sums.
Take in what exactly do you! spend regards keeping and racing pigeons. Yes just keeping in its se;f is a burden … then the silly add ons and drugs ailment solvers... mostly rubbish granted, but too many fall in line and waste a lot of money.
Once you have bought a set of golf clubs, paid £500 or less membership (£10 a week) it costs just for the rounds...

Knackered wrote:

David wrote:

MISTY wrote:

You are right about garden lofts David.

Just counted the ones that were within throwing distance of my loft in gardens not two many years ago.

There were eight, now none.

On the allotments their were twice as many as now.

Not only that, but many fanciers are now not youngsters but ready for packing in for one reason or another.

Regards.

same here misty, when i was a teenager starting out with a few pigeons, there were pigeon men all over the estate, who belonged to local clubs, there were half a dozen virtually within throwing distance .........now those fanciers are gone, and all but one or two of the clubs too .   like rays says, youngsters are more interested in sat in the house playing computer games or on their phones, they have no one to introduce them into pigeons, a family member or neighbor etc ...

I think of those that may have joined our sport over the last 5 years & those that may just join in the next 5 years etc & ponder some what, how many will still be involved in the sport in the following 50 year type celebration party as such .

i think in 50 years time pigeon racing will be all but gone sadly knackered.........

David wrote:

Knackered wrote:

David wrote:

MISTY wrote:

You are right about garden lofts David.

Just counted the ones that were within throwing distance of my loft in gardens not two many years ago.

There were eight, now none.

On the allotments their were twice as many as now.

Not only that, but many fanciers are now not youngsters but ready for packing in for one reason or another.

Regards.

same here misty, when i was a teenager starting out with a few pigeons, there were pigeon men all over the estate, who belonged to local clubs, there were half a dozen virtually within throwing distance .........now those fanciers are gone, and all but one or two of the clubs too .   like rays says, youngsters are more interested in sat in the house playing computer games or on their phones, they have no one to introduce them into pigeons, a family member or neighbor etc ...

I think of those that may have joined our sport over the last 5 years & those that may just join in the next 5 years etc & ponder some what, how many will still be involved in the sport in the following 50 year type celebration party as such .

i think in 50 years time pigeon racing will be all but gone sadly knackered.........

To a degree your maybe right etc David sadly. Magic ball thing thou is how one would ever quite know how & what things maybe will be like I suspect & if any one reaches that period in time as such thats racing today. Now we have discussed the many issues confronting our sport etc & why people look else where for the enjoyment factor with their money as such & how they may prefer to spend it. Just received my other half here's heath insurance cover by mail for the next 12 months 2579 dollars & 64 cents Missus said its all ok thou & suggested if I wish to still receive 3 good meals a day type thing I will pay it on time & with a big on my face, to just help take the pain away etc     .

David i dont think we will get 50 more years prob 10 max if we are lucky , clubs dont want to almagalmate Feds and Combines dont want to help each other out the pigeon men them selfs are pressing the self distruck button , younguns wont come into it older generations might do if we start targeting them , yet you hear fanciers saying we should almagamate but when you ask them to do just that they tell you where to go , not flying with you lot carnt beat you thats why we formed this club think they might wake up once they are the only member in their club but look on the bright side at least hes getting the first
Ken

Filling fish tanks today. 50 gallon, 25 some tens. Could not give the large tank away. Keeps me occupied indoors this weather. As for birds, hope to fly young ones but will wait and see. Probably my last year also. Hours drive to the club etc,.
Will keep some for my own enjoyment though.