Exercising birds.

Flying area. Lake Erie. End of property. They do go over te Lake quite often.
Looking east. Second pic looking west.

You lucky fellow, wish I had a situation like yours, watching the pigeons enjoying their freedom and catching supper at the same time.

Regards.

wow hal, having a lake at the bottom of the garden, cant be bad eh.......lovely place you have there, you lucky man

David wrote:

 wow hal, having a lake at the bottom of the garden, cant be bad eh.......lovely place you have there, you lucky man

Not for me David think of all that fresh air there poor Hal has to suck in every day as such . Know wonder the bloke, sadly is as bald as a bagger .

Nice to enjoy in the Summer. Bald Eagles in the trees, hawks nesting in the cliffs. Pretty soon it will get brutal. Snow storms, ice storms and very cold. Minus 45 C. But again, ice fishing picks up. Have to balance the good with the bad. No complaints here.

very nice their hal but from here that lake looks like an ocean

Very nice Hal

Yes it looks like an ocean. Think about 100 miles across. At this point. To the US. Same almost as an ocean regarding waves and cold winds etc,. Nature at its best as regards balance. Shallow as Canadian Lakes go. But did sail through it on a UK Merchant ship late 50's. 15,000 tonner. Grain pick up Lake Superior way West. Miserable weather at times. But heck! One cannot change the weather. All creatures adapt or perish. Climate change whatever. The Earth has been poisened, with insecticides plus other stuff. The population (human and otherwise) have been subjected to all. Plus wars/famine etc,. All survive. Humans are good at it. Dark forces of evil, world will end in chaos and final elimination. Those thoughts were preached over a 1000 years ago and still persist. Still waiting. As are all who care. Majority do not care. Life goes on. Big bang tomorrow? Unlikely. If so nothing more to worry about. Postpone it? How? Humans are humans and irrational most of the time. There is NO group that I am aware of that are up to the task of changing anything. Doubt if there ever will be. "The meek shall inherent the Earth". Bullshit!
Sorry folks, rambling.

Hal, as a farmer I would have thought you were well aware where bullshit came from.

A wise chap said some time ago I do not know what WW3 will be fought with but if there was a WW4 it would be fought with sticks and stones.

A very wise chap.

There has never been a weapon invented that has not been used to it's full potential and the weapons available today are capable of wiping out mankind and there will always be some idiot to start the process.

That is leaving any religion or other consideration out.

On the religious side, in my opinion anyone who considers all the interdependanciees in nature and thinks
evolution can explain it is lacking in considering facts.

I have never believed evolution but had many doubts about certain matters in nature but looked for the answers in the right place and always found them.

Could not understand the sea and oceans and why all the life there in, looked for an answer, they are a fantastic means of providing over 75% of the worlds oxygen on which much of life depends.


Along with other matters all of which were explained.



ROLL ON ARMAGEDDON.



Regards.

ROLL ON ARMAGEDDON.! Great provided you survive it eh!
Mind whether or not 'd survive it lol, I wish it for the betterment of those then and after eh!

I certainly know where you are coming from Oldstrain. Indeed understand the thinking of yours, and to be honest very many such minded fanciers.
Maybe the reasoning stems from 2 or 3 reasons and thinking. One relates to our feathered friends in human terms ... Big misunderstanding there, I not only believe but know. So should most! Secondarily it may be because it seems everyone trains their' birds regularly, so it must be the right thing. Fear of lagging behind! ... and topmost the love of their' birds and one striving, not only to fly well, but giving their birds every chance of homing, and then doing well.  It is / would be a curse that plays upon one's mind if not sure that they had done right by them...

This however not only discredits the bird's ability but doesn't give them actually a fair and proper chance, indeed is a disservice. 'Fainthearted never won fair lady' is, in my opinion, a major set back.

Was a time when most, outside of the wealthy and loft managers type, trained their' birds... For the vast majority it was just club races for certain ones. Berwick for Lewrick etc. Season's end of hard days and distances meant the youngsters flew the whole program... or at least the longest race ... Fainthearted etc. maybe not lol. Then most seasons the problem of what had to make room...
Now it is sadly the case very many give their birds too much training... 'Left the fitness in the gym' so to speak. Birds should be 90 /95 fit full stop! Then tweaked for certain races.

Young Blandy (Ian) lived a couple of doors from me.  He wanted some pigeons to race. He got six y/bs bred for him. Pigeons were rung and a clock lent him. Recently married and wife expecting his first child he worked a lot of hours. So pigeons a step back. Hopper fed, let out early morning with an open loft. Loft shut up when he came home late in the evenings.
Hardly ever saw the birds.  He decides to pack up and start again at a later date. No one wanted the youngsters, so as he hadn't the heart to cull them, he sent them to the last young bird race Berwick. First time ever in a basket.  1st five in the club. 1st four and 6th federation. This when there was over 40 in the club and nearly 300 flyers in the fed. A fact! I tell no lie.

Next year my mate's daughter died aged 16. She was always with him and the birds. Cleaning out etc. Broken hearted he gave his pigeons away. I was just starting back up and had a few. He was let down with a couple of youngsters and wanted me to have them too. I declined, in hope that they might serve to start him up again. Open loft he hardly saw them.
So he sent them to Seaton, the first time in the basket. 1st and 2nd club. 1st and second fed.
Stu Wisken flies both ways. He decided as it was easier, as mate went that way, to trains the birds North Rd. He does ok. The South roaders, have an open loft and are never trained, not as youngsters or old birds. First time in basket is first race - like it always used to be. (Change for change sake, and listening while being led astray eh!) He does far, far better on the South Rd.

Due to working evening weekends etc. with the burden of ill health, I never trained my birds. I did 2 or 3 times this early season, though to be honest I don't know why for the love of me. Just that I was going to Nottingham I guess. No problems, but health made it clear past dreams for the future was a no goer! Seldom able to attend clubs meeting let alone race them. However I for a couple of seasons trained the clubs birds... Just couldn't get my head around to take mine, TRUE!  However, I knew my birds were bred in the pink from a proven stock of good and trusted friends.
So as yearlings or 2-year-olds I would just put them into a race of 150 to 200 miles. First time in the basket. I was never out of the top 6! 29 members. 3 sending nearly 200 birds between them. I was way out on a limb to boot. I did this to know a few things about their worth. I lost about 25% of my birds. Trouble was that they were still breeding and I was- as some would have you believe'over Crowded. Another myth without any foundation whatsoever. Just a spout to make out that they no something.... as unbelievablely most fanciers believe this stupidity.

What really made me smile was the fanciers bragging that their birds were tearing up the sky. Disappearing and ranging. Bottom of the race weekends lol. I smiled because I knew it was better to have them resting in the loft conserving energy for the coming race!

To be honest, if I ever toyed with an idea of training pigeons, (that's if I could find a reason to waste time and spend silly money) I would go for a tried and tested and very good proven system. 10 miles (some went about 20 miles) each day, fed in with a titbit that they relished and left to rest. JMO

As I have said many times training pigeons is a waste of time and money, all you need is the ability to give them the means of reaching their full potential by using natural methods in feeding etc;.

I have jumped pigeons from North to South and won with them and over the water and then Lerwick.


But you would be lucky to do so with pigeons fastened up for 90% of the time.

If you have open loft the pigeons will, if looked after properly, fly the distance of many races each day.


Over a period of time the health will be built up and losses very few.


But it is a fact that many fanciers will not be able to have open loft and two hours day flagged round the loft is not the same.

This I have said for over 40 odd years.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

As I have said many times training pigeons is a waste of time and money, all you need is the ability to give them the means of reaching their full potential by using natural methods in feeding etc;.

I have jumped pigeons from North to South and won with them and over the water and then Lerwick.


But you would be lucky to do so with pigeons fastened up for 90% of the time.

If you have open loft the pigeons will, if looked after properly, fly the distance of many races each day.


Over a period of time the health will be built up and losses very few.


But it is a fact that many fanciers will not be able to have open loft and two hours day flagged round the loft is not the same.

This I have said for over 40 odd years.


Regards.

In the perfect world I suggest Misty many would just love to do it your way as such. Unfortunately, many live in the real world etc & so they just make the best of what they have type of thing .

No person, nor animal or pigeon can or will be 100% in condition fitness and health 100% of the time. Super form - 100% - last between 5 and 6 weeks. 7 weeks maximum - if lucky.
However this can be achieved and done in regards of control. Mostly hopper fed on open hole will keep them steadfastly 90 to 95 fitness. Many then tell you when 100% has arrived. The art is 'Preparing' them for such spells.
For instance many pigeons can and do - take Natrix for example 9Stan Bis if spelt right) - win early in the sprints and later the most arduous and distance races AT national even international races.

That is why the natural system is the best, you learn the character of each pigeon, that is why you keep few,
and lose few, some like chasing, some sitting others youngsters etc; a very different ball game to the latter methods,


They can all be healthy but it is knowing when the love of their loft is at the greatest

The young on open hole learn more in a day than taking them 10miles down the road a hundred times the repartition must make them sick enough not to want to return, maybe one reason for many losses.

Regards.

That is why the natural system is the best, you learn the character of each pigeon, that is why you keep few,
and lose few, some like chasing, some sitting others youngsters etc; a very different ball game to the latter methods,


They can all be healthy but it is knowing when the love of their loft is at the greatest

The young on open hole learn more in a day than taking them 10miles down the road a hundred times the repartition must make them sick enough not to want to return, maybe one reason for many losses.

Regards.

True Misty. the 3 c's … mine was 5 lol. Contentment, condition and control.

No one can ever get a pigeon to race home if not really interested. Nor can that bird be motivated. Yes later that bird may well come into the circle where it will.
Now If a bird isn't contented it won't reach 100 condition both mental or physical.
Motivation in it's self is part and partial to Condition. All parts needed to be healthy and race fit.
I mean in all seriousness why do fancier look at a date when they begin to train? Time and date hasn't absolutely nothing to when a bird is MENTALLY fit and healthy when One should - if needs must - start training. Bonkers springs to mind.

Now any and every thesis in regards of HOW a pigeon actually homes has been shot to pieces. Simply truth is that we still have no idea.
What we do know - or can tell - is when they are healthy, fit * conditioned and WANT to be home.... that in it's self is all the motivation it needs.
Like breaking in pigeons. Easy as long as it is A. intelligent and B. prefers its new loft more. Many fancier believe that they have broken a bird... 100%? Maybe yes, maybe no! For very many pigeons fly to their old loft first then to the new one.

Further, if sense is known, Pigeons, either sex, fly to the territory that they want to defend, are happy with. Never mind the tripe about the hen etc. waiting... It could be a fantail or parrot for all it cares. It is the perch or NEST box! Other 'Tweaks too are irrelevant and only for appeasement of the fancier!

As for training, breaking points it is a myth. Only reason a training toss might be needed is to tweak after a dormant spell and the bird is reaching it top condition. Gosh a circle at home is most at least 440 yards a time... 40 times is 10 miles, yet they do far, far, more! When not flying rest them. Now on open hole the take off up to roofs or from roof to roof in short burst, then a little arc of showing off is best fitness achieving after driving or being driven. Beat wasting £20 a time up and down the road that's for sure. Better to buy some grub for them etc.

Daz wrote:

As for training, breaking points it is a myth. Only reason a training toss might be needed is to tweak after a dormant spell and the bird is reaching it top condition. Gosh a circle at home is most at least 440 yards a time... 40 times is 10 miles,  yet they do far, far, more! When not flying rest them. Now on open hole the take off up to roofs or from roof to roof in short burst, then a little arc of showing off is best fitness achieving after driving or being driven. Beat wasting £20 a time up and down the road that's for sure. Better to buy some grub for them etc.

Agree about the myth scenario Daz but will always unfortunately have those that believe it's the way to go type of thing I suggest. Here I'm fly the north east line this year & my 2 toss spots are west & south as such & when I was talking to my club secretary about the Rota virus issue today his birds had just landed from a toss from the south east to him there.

We must have gone to the same school Daz and sung the same songs been saying the same for many years
but once money entered the sport the rot set in and we now see the state of the sport and the state of most pigeons .

Some people can make licking an ice cream into a major operation in particular if they can make money at the same time.

But you are wasting time I have been trying to get the points over for the past 45 years to no avail because those in positions to alter matters are very happy as things are.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

We must have gone to the same school Daz and sung the same songs been saying the same for many years
but once money entered the sport the rot set in and we now see the state of the sport and the state of most pigeons .

Some people can make licking an ice cream into a major operation in particular if they can make money at the same time.

But you are wasting time I have been trying to get the points over for the past 45 years to no avail because those in positions to alter matters are very happy as things are.


Regards.

True Like the big event of the day here Misty . The Prime minister of our country here as such was on TV I'm spruiking about how they have taking the tax of womans tampons etc . Thought to myself Boy oh Boy that's Big Big news on the world stage for our new Prime minister as such.
*****

Leaders protecting their' own ground / Location and interests.
 Never seen in all my years in the sport, when the members have voted in club for different race program and seen it changed as such as such when raised at the Fed meetings ... Spouting 'Yes many members / clubs voted for a change - which most of us understand and believe - but though many wanted a change, many clubs voted different from each other … Hence this one had the most votes.
Now logically that means that the majority wanted a change...AND as such members should then be given 2 or even 3 different programs to vote on till one of them different ones is agreed on.
As Misty would most likely agree, fresh blood and ideas from different members get voted on such committees, but soon find the 'Old brigade' dictating and they are over ruled of course, whether to the detrimental of the Club / Fed members. So they then tend  give up after a time … to stop banging their heads against the wall.

DAz,
Five men and true attempted to look into the RPRA in many respects feeing that matters were not as they should be, they were elected through the Regions as members of the Council.

The only people who could legally have a vote of confidence against them were those who elected them,
l (in my opinion based on past instances).

But the Old Brigade thought better and voted them off the Council, with no mandate from the membership.


But what is legal is if just one club had a vote of no confidence in the whole Council the General Manager would be bound to call a vote of ALL THE MEMBERSHIP individually.

If he did not then legal action could be taken.

I brought this up several years ago and if action had been taken the Hall Report would have had the attention it deserves when it was published.

The arrogance inn dismissing the report off hand should be proof enough the Old Brigade should be retired along with their friends who have also been contaminated.

Regards.

100% correct and true. there is so much that could have / should have / would have been changed... but none have and or will.
Yes we can lay some blame on the apathy of the members … but then that is just a lame crutch! Powers to be could have, should have, and would have if it was in THEIR interests and not the members or sport in general.