Moan and do NOTHING.

friendsloft wrote:

I was out last night with  a few lads and i was telling them what we are dicussing here on the forum , all agreed that for the sport to survive change  from the top to the bottom  , but the response to the notion of putting a petition of no confidence was the powers that be would take no notice and if they did and resigned , how do we know that the new team would be any differant like jumping out of the fire into the frying pad, as they said we only know people in the circle we move in
Ken

Ken, its mush like your friends saying 'Don't put your name up' etc.

That is, sorry to say the very core of APATHY! Via putting your name up shows that you are 'An own man'.
The part above about ' …  how do we know that the new team would be any differant like jumping out of the fire into the frying pad, as they said we only know people in the circle we move in' is also, sorry to say, that they are also of the opinion that all is lost - possibly is -- and what is the use'?!
Howeverm truth be known, is if you got your friends on board, that would be the very first step needed for this 1000 miles trip.


I was in a South Rd. club, where the members were very  peeved off with the lib sites. The people that promised the earth and what they would, or wouldn't if allowed to join up with our Fed. Short changed after a couple of seasons and vote their way after the membership out numbered us. Taking the Pee!


So a few of us said 'Enough is enough'. Asked other, former clubs to form with us a new fed. Much like the one previous! Not much good. Apathy struck out in leaps and bounds.
So we went alone. Hit libs sites pleasing to us. Hammered Farnham most week. Good racing, a Great MAN Russel  who convoyed who looked after US!  Soon we were doing well in the Nationals. Soon other clubs asked if we would cater for their birds... and left that fed. We expanded. Yes we gained 11 National winners in our clubs. A small federation. Indeed in the three South Road clubs I joined I was always flying against a National winner! Yes due to membership dwindling we amalgamated with a bigger fed. Yes we still hold our own.

So for the past 20 years or so we have better and vastly improved racing … which Apathy tried, and would have succeeded if one or two of us hadn't formed our own cliché. The rewards were well worth the down puts first when we invited the former and local clubs to a meeting- 2or 3 times which they turned down. So apathy is a common core imbedded within us all. Sorry nigh all Misty lol.

Dazi havent given up yet i know its a up hill fight,
Ken

So lets just spell it out exactly what you mean, Daz.

Do you think those who have ruined the sport, , ignored the rules, told lies, fabricated evidence, done just exactly as they want etc; should be involved in attempting to save the sport?.

Just exactly what do you think they could contribute, they have voted to totally ignore the Hall Report and will continue to do all they can to maintain their positions.

Sorting a Fed out and involving all concerned, and I bet you would not involve any if there were a few known cheats etc; among them is nothing whatsoever comparable to attempting to save the sport.

If you know the bad apples in a barrel, they cannot be made good and if left to their own devices will ruin the lot, there is no way you can get rid of the damage without removing the rot.


As I have said, implement the Hall Report, which will ultimately get rid of the Old Brigade and the sport will be on it's way to a possible means of it's survival, make excuses and those that do are as bad as, in my opinion, as those who have got the sport into it's present position.


Regards.

MISTY wrote:

So lets just spell it out exactly what you mean, Daz.

Do you think those who have ruined the sport, , ignored  the rules, told lies, fabricated evidence, done just exactly as they want etc; should be involved in attempting to save the sport?.

Just exactly what do you think they could contribute, they have voted to totally ignore the Hall Report  and will continue to do all they can to maintain their positions.

Sorting a Fed out and involving all concerned, and I bet you would not involve any if there were a few known cheats etc; among them is nothing whatsoever comparable to attempting to save the sport.

If you know the bad apples in a barrel, they cannot be made good and if left to their own devices will ruin the lot, there is no way you can get rid of the damage without removing the rot.


As I have said, implement the Hall Report, which will ultimately get rid of the Old Brigade and the sport will be on it's way to a possible means of it's survival, make excuses and those that do are as bad as, in my opinion, as those who have got the sport into it's present position.


Regards.

Some where out there some one may just come up with a solution to the problem under discussion here, hopefully But from an outsiders perspective I see a problem, which for the newcomer & average type family man could be an issue I suggest, maybe. Story as such Head line in all your pigeon magizines there. Record breaking family, unearthed as such New must have breed Man clocks 38 out of 38, to take the top 38 positions in his local area in 10 seconds . Now I ask you, how can that type of scenario look to a newcomer, with a limited type budget or the family man struggling to put food on the table to feed his family & maybe thinking about taking up the sport of pigeon racing for the enjoyment factor & also be racing on a level playing field as such.

Unfortunately, Knackered, as things stand and the way the sport is advertised it is not one that anyone looking for a decent reasonably costly sport would be attracted to.

Everything is about winning and how much money can be won, and nothing mentioned about the greatest pleasures in breeding and conditioning the pigeons which in themselves even without any wins etc; can be done on a reasonable budget, and provide immense pleasure rarely found in many mundane activities presently undertaken by many young people.

When still at school several of our young mates used to send our pigeons by bus about 7 miles just as good as winning a National and fairer.


As more and more commercialism has crept in less and less has the ordinary fancier had a chance to keep up, of course some win, depends mainly on the opposition involved and the advantages of the money mad.


But unless you have a sound administration run by true and honest people and engaging with EVERY member you have problems as our sport testifies.


Regards.

Think Knackered is right.

halcanada wrote:

Think Knackered is right.

You think suggests maybe Hal I didn't put a good enough case forward for a final conclusion as such . Now           I see on TV to-night here around Devon way I believe     A Giant burger has been found as such     So       maybe some one here     could get a free meal if that way inclined, maybe    .    
*****

too much moaning going on and not enough

Knackered wrote:

halcanada wrote:

Think Knackered is right.

You think suggests maybe Hal I didn't put a good enough case forward for a final conclusion as such . Now           I see on TV to-night here around Devon way I believe     A Giant burger has been found as such     So       maybe some one here     could get a free meal if that way inclined, maybe    .    
*****

its all these filthy, dirty take aways that are blocking the drains putting old oil, fat into the drainage system......but all we hear is its because people are putting wipes down the toilets that's causing it, yes it might be adding to the problem, but its not the main part of the problem.

The filthy rich have a lot to be laid at their door, sure! But that doesn't excuse the 'Grass roots for allowing it! However I, we, can all see how that happened.

Now to add, and finish that last post of mine. Thought I'd said too much in one go. No, I'm not 'Drip ' feeding you all lol.

Now the man, a very wealthy man, who had split up two clubs and a fed was called Jim. He travelled much and anywhere. The Mafia in Boston, great and honest Fanciers. Van Loon in Belgium, whom all came to his wife's' funeral later.

He took to spouting, stirring us up in the very Fed he had helped to create, also now  the problems he had allowed to get his way.
Now he wanted again 'Change', and moaned and did his corridor politics.

So I had a chat with him. I get what you are saying Jim but just whom would want to listen to you! Indeed they listen. but care not a jot because of your past performances in regards the two clubs you ruined. This Federation you helped to destroy' .
We were both sportsmen, and embarrassed may I say renowned. It shook him! He said 'I only pursued and did what I did for the goodness of the clubs and feds'!
'Jim' I said 'that matters not a jot now. Those that backed you wouldn't now put their hands up to admit that their part that they also played'.

May I state here, that I left the area for eight years due to divorce when I came back to the area. I was quite surprised and hurt, that I wasn't accepted in my former clubs.
I spoke to Jim regards ... Well, he said you join us, you will get in, no two ways about that'!

It was 16 miles out the way, but hey what the heck. It was the best deal going. In fact the only deal. ... IF I got in'! I was informed to attend the next meeting after I tended my desire to join'. I sat through the meeting. Jim introduced me at the start of the meeting. It came up regards my letter. I said I'df better leave the room. The Sec Trev said no stay'! I got everyone's vote.
Now back to the reasoning of making a change.

So now here am I speaking to Jim a year or so later as I said above.
A week or so past and he found a spot in the pub where we held our meeting.

'Roly, I want to say I took on board what you said to me last week... Was first off mad, and hurt'.
'No Jim, you were first mad, then hurt, because you felt, after you got me in this club, I was out of order to say such'. He took a deep breath. I waited and told him I was grateful, but 'LIKE YOU' I have to say what I mean, right or wrong ( A bit of the 3 B's. BULL..T baffles Brains LOL) Right or wrong, and we are all often wrong'. Any way he mellowed and asked 'Are you happy with shid- shod the way this Fed treats us, as forlorn fodder to bolster their coffer. Deny our birds any credit deserved?. 'No, of course not... changes are needed' I stated.

So we became two. However, needed an agenda. A way forward, and most of all a change!

So Jim became the talker on the getting others on the side. I became the enforced talker to enforce the reasoning and thoughts subtly behind it. The first man we got on our side was the secretary. Then WE winked and nodded at those- for want of a better word - lesser flyers — those paying the dividends for them to beat and cash in on. Momentum started then.  Soon we called a meeting to put forward a blueprint of what we wanted and HOW it could be achieved how to cut costs.
The first inkling of the 'Fanciers' nature was when it came to raising funds.  I did 'Race Nights'  free! Jim and I got 'Sponsors'.  Sadly, many members didn't come or participate. However, never mind, it was only to be expected etc.  Soon we had enough money to buy a Small transporter to take our birds anywhere each week. Now with cheaper racing and a better club atmosphere, we went forward. We asked other clubs to join. They refused, But we resigned from the Fed and went alone.

Daz, as far as I am concerned with regard to attempting to save the sport isolated instances of one person coming to his senses has no influence on my opinion that you would not or should not let known pirates board any ship.


Our sport has been in decline for the past 70 odd years during which time a certain clique has called the tune, irrespective of the rules, which they have totally ignored on numerous occasions and as one of the clique has died they have converted others to their like and the situation exists today.


On another topic, regarding RPRA MANAGERS I have pointed out that with a cushy and well paid number why have so many left the position after a comparatively short period?.

The whole set up is not fit for purpose nor the people running it and you do not let the bandits run the bank, that is unless they are your friends, for some unknown reason.


Regards.

Well misty, times are a changing. Always been Judas Sheep that others follow... Even to the slaughter pen. However, the fact that the Leaders are misusing their trust. Fleecing and lying, only serves to ones who want change and a benefit.
In the sixties, money started to take hold. Pictures of granular swarmed minds.
Now the path led has shown to be less desirable. Treacherous. Fanciers, genuine fanciers are wandering in the wilderness bleating.

It would be far, far easier today to mark out a regime that the vast majority want... they just lack the leaders. Yes, the apathy and mistrust will always be there. Far more comfortable than when we changed things in the clubs and federations that time ago.
- Some led a new way recently forward. One tried and tested before they are going back to what we did then. -
There are very many whom would support... if they haven't to take the lead. To be shot at and downed is a realistic fear.
However, truth be known, a well thought out structure. The reasoning of betterment and what 'They Want' and would today make the swift following needed. Those now in the position to a con, to conjure and tell porkies. Who feather their, own and buddies, with lies and deceit aren't daft! Very quickly they would see the way things ARE changing would get on board or relinquish their posts and positions. Yes even try to get buddy mates to … But the truth is The grassroots have had enough!

Be very interesting to see the propositions for the RPRA AGM, the last one I told you what would happen and it did, none of any consequence passed.

If they can put one proposition first that could affect others they do not like they ensure that is passed and call the others out of order. etc; they have it down to a fine art.

They brought a silly requirement in that you had to explain why you wanted to change or introduce a new proposition, that is the intelligence of those in charge.

Lets wait and see just what happens.

Regards.

David wrote:

Knackered wrote:

halcanada wrote:

Think Knackered is right.

You think suggests maybe Hal I didn't put a good enough case forward for a final conclusion as such . Now           I see on TV to-night here around Devon way I believe     A Giant burger has been found as such     So       maybe some one here     could get a free meal if that way inclined, maybe    .    
*****

its all these filthy, dirty take aways that are blocking the drains putting old oil, fat into the drainage system......but all we hear is its because people are putting wipes down the toilets that's causing it, yes it might be adding to the problem, but its not the main part of the problem.

Could be so David But just wait etc I suggest till I send a brigade of my Sudanese thugs types over there with their eating habits as such. Now don't rush me here But who would be happy as such, cleaning up the Berger mess scenario, for a living here .

Not worried a jot regards the RPRA, nor feds, and especially the National's.
they all have the wrong end on the dog. WE SHOULD be wagging it's tail. It has to be, as far as I'm concerned from the grass roots upwards. Once a trickle starts, they will laugh etc. But if and when it picks up momentum and a rumble THEN they will look out for their own arses an HAVE to toe the line, and not only that, but act accordingly.

This nonsense regards the Nationals having to have 5 years notice, may be right.... But certainly can't be the dates.... If members want it changed they won't risk losing their nest eggs and above all 'Money'!
But the member have to start pushing, or they will all carry on taking the wee - wee!

You have lost me, Daz.

What is this about the Nationals etc;?.

Agree if the grass root fanciers do not start becoming interested and involved in all aspects of the sport with the intention of changing matters for the better the sport will not survive.


Regards.

Was stated last season regards the National Races, that they couldn't be changes because they were booked 5 years in advance for the races.
Personally I think it is a load of old tosh.

As for change 'HATE loves the silence ... as an acceptance of all being happy.
Likewise the so called leaders in our sport.

How on earth can anyone book anything nowadays five years ahead, no one knows what the changed circumstances may be tomorrow, never mind next week.

Sounds potty to me.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

How on earth can anyone book anything nowadays five years ahead, no one knows what the changed circumstances may be tomorrow, never mind next week.

Sounds potty to me.

Regards.

All sounds pretty crap to me Misty etc & with Brexit knocking on the door as such my mind boggles with what type of a circus type scenario may just be over the horizon as such in the near future for your lot there, with that type of thinking/planning for the future.

Knackered, Brexit just proves that although we are supposed to be a democratic society, it is a myth.

The people voted to leave the EU, that should be sacrosanct.

The ONLY thing that should be possibly disputable is on what terms.

But it has brought to light a number of people not fit to be engaged in politics and many are people we have welcomed into our country and are now attempting to destroy democracy along with others who would lose financially if we leave.

The fact is that had we made reasonable provisions when we joined to be able to leave on good terms, as we should have done, things would have been straight forward.


Be interesting to see what the next few days bring.



What tickles me as I have said previously, what if they have another referendum and more than previously vote to leave ????????



Regards.

Of course Misty, just a throw away myth that most tag along with. Can't see the end of their nose springs to mind.

Much like the NRCC ridiculous spouting regards moving to more western liberations site -- let alone the West cost! the birds WOULD CRASH into the mountains! True. Was their finding regards making a better club * national races. Can't expect them to fly over them - Pin pricks- Think that they are P...…. But the gullible went along with it!
So they can't liberate in a East wind! So I said, and wrote up So then it is O.k. to liberate in strong westerly winds that drive our birds out to sea and over to the continent … which HAPPENS, and Has happened so very many times.
Like they could understand why there was only 7 members left in the Northants and surrounding areas fed when they opened up their section to join Lowerstoft , King Lynns etc. etc. etc.

Just read about a fanciers complete loft of pigeons being burnt down on an allotment.

Would not believe any genuine pigeon fancier could be involved.

Maybe out of spite and jealousy a fancier may burn a loft down but surely not with the pigeons still fastened inside.


Fanciers have gathered around to see that the fancier concerned is back in the sport as soon as possible.

Hope when the culprit/ culprits are found they are dealt with according to the depravity of the crime.

Probably send them to Butlins Holiday Camp, as punishment, conditions now far better in prisons.

Regards.

MISTY wrote:

Just read about a fanciers complete loft of pigeons being burnt down on an allotment.

Would not believe any genuine pigeon fancier could be involved.

Maybe out of spite and jealousy a fancier may burn a loft down but surely not with the pigeons still fastened inside.


Fanciers have gathered around to see that the fancier concerned is back in the sport as soon as possible.

Hope when the culprit/ culprits are found they are dealt with according to the depravity of the crime.

Probably send them to Butlins Holiday Camp, as punishment, conditions now far better in prisons.

Regards.

Suspect so Misty with the Butlers scenario etc Same, same here with the Sudanese thug issue as such now. Mis-understood bunch of juvenil's where told by the top end of town & police as such who we must show pity towards. Total rubbish scenario sadly, by those doing the spruiking on their behave as what they really are, is a bunch of youth types with no morals & just a bunch of thugs at the end of the day & should be deported back from where they come, or be in jail      if possible, if the average local yocals had their way here I suspect/suggest .