Malcolms Place

iany wrote:

malcolm i race pigeons and have been for about 8 years now ever since i started i have been on the dark with youngsters , you say that the darkness system you think affects the orientation of the birds hence losses , however over the young bird season i dont loose a lot of birds as youngsters or as yearlings and so on so i myself dont find this as being true

Hi Iany,
I think you will find that I stated that I could not say for certain that the darkness affected orientation. However, I still think that there is reason for doubt as to whether it does or not and this view is shared by others who have vast experience and many years of racing pigeons.
I think that whilst there is much to be said for the Darkness system and the advantages it has over Natural we must never close our minds as to what potential problems it can cause even though almost everybody practices it.
My posting was purely an opinion about an observation which had occured to me over recent years and I thought it was sound enough to warrant discussion. There are many many fanciers who have had almost no losses during the season, however, there are those who still find it impossible to understand why these losses are occuring. My inquisitive mind suggests that if we try to manipulate nature to our own ends then there will be times when we will get bitten on the bum.
My opinions are only food for thought and they are posted that way, hopefully they will raise debate and we can then have differing opinions which I consider to be healthy. Best wishes.
Chanco

hi malcolm, been reading through your articles but cannot find any reference to the value of a pedigree ans could you tell me if you have any views on eyesign and if it plays any part in selecting breeding pairs.....
thanks malcolm.

oh one other thing malcolm....ive been told by a couple of fanciers who race on the dark system that when they are using this system their ybs are more likely to get yb sickness, when they have gone back to natural they have not had it.......
i have asked this to fanciers who race darkness but they do not agree and say it makes no difference, have you heard or do you have hany thoughts on this....
thanks malcolm.

iany wrote:

very interesting chanco really enjoyed readsing your view by the way where dont you fly from

Now I am back home and out of hospital I will be flying my Ybs this season. Although I am looking forward to the competition I realise that circumstances have left me in a position where I will have to fly them Natural, and this, in a very tough club of about 25-30 members will not be easy going. The club I will fly with is Stourton Flying Club based in Leeds.
I bred them early (January) with a view to putting them on darkness but it didn't work out that way for me unfortunately and my early breeding is now causing me problems with the wing moult. Anyway, I hope for the best and I will be as competitive as I can under the circumstances.
Regards
Chanco.

I think you going to do great Chanco.

hi malcolm, with you breeding early in jan are they well on in the body moult by now? also when do you start to train the ybs? is it when they are ranging for so long or how long they are gone for?
thanks malcolm.

the photos of the ybs certainly look well dont they niel? i remember malcolm saying the ybs were born outside, but do they go inside the yb loft or are they still out in the open malcolm?

DAVID wrote:

hi malcolm, been reading through your articles but cannot find any reference to the value of a pedigree ans could you tell me if you have any views on eyesign and if it plays any part in selecting breeding pairs.....
thanks malcolm.

Hi Dave, Good question I will write something on pedigrees later today or tomorrow. In the 70's I was fortunate to be invited to the lofts of the famous Fabrys in Belgium and whilst I was there I was able to discuss with Viktor Fabry his opinions on strains and families, he remarks opened my eyes!
As regards to eyesign: I have little opinion on this subject and have made no study of it. However, having said that, one of the authorities on the subject from a medical point of view was Brian May of Rotherham who was very well known to me on a friend basis. And whenever I spoke with him about eyesign it was always from the medical angle ( he was a doctor)
I like them to have TWO and see out of them both!
Regards
Malcolm.

thanks malcolm, so when pairing you would not cosider the eyes at all, and would let the same type go togeather?
how whould you choose them if you didnt have results to base your selections on....how they handled?or compatability with each other in size, strenght of back or apple boddied, deep/shallow keel etc....
thanks malcolm.

DAVID wrote:

hi malcolm, been reading through your articles but cannot find any reference to the value of a pedigree ans could you tell me if you have any views on eyesign and if it plays any part in selecting breeding pairs.....
thanks malcolm.

Hi David,
You asked me about Pedigrees, here is my opinion.
First of all let us establish the word STRAIN. It means any animal or bird that can trace its' bloodline back to an original point.
If we accept that as being fact then there are no pure strains today. Today we have FAMILIES which have evolved over the years and fanciers now look upon them as strains by calling them Jansennes, Van Reet, Van loon, and so on.
In 1970 I was visiting with a very good fancier in Germany called Jakob Palm, indeed I had gone over to purchase some birds of the fabry familiy which he had some of the best of. Whilst I was there he asked me if I wanted to go and visit a personal friend of his who lived in Belgium, just over the border, those friends were the Famous Fabry family George and Viktor (George had died a couple of years earlier and the loft was now run by Viktor).
Whilst there I was able to ask Viktor how they had managed to stay at the top for so many years, as most of the top perfomances had been done by Fabry birds in Belgium at that time. Expecting him to tell me that they line bred or inbred I was suprised when he told me that the only way to stay at the top was to introduce new blood!
It is well known that the old man had plenty of money and was a chemist by proffession and was known to be very generous in allowing others to purchase his stock. He always purchased back the birds that had proved to be winners and paired them back into his family. Perhaps one of the most important purchases was a hen from the world famous Hansenne to which even Fabry himself admitted to being one of his best moves ever and it was his policy to buy from other famous fanciers of the day as crosses.
When I asked Viktor about being able to trace back certain Fabry lines he suprised me and said that he could not call them a strain because of all the crosses over the years but they were a family made famous by Georges and his astute breeding policy.
He went on to explain that there was no pure strains anymore because the war had taken care of that by the fact that the Germans had issued a decree that all pigeons in Belgium had to be surrenderd to the German authorities and anyone caught in possesion of pigeons would be shot. Viktor told me he remembers the day that the German soldiers came and took the pigeons from his loft and every other loft in Belgium suffered the same treatment. The birds were taken to various holding pens which were huge cages and all thrown in together, it did not matter where they came from and birds of different lofts were all kept together. Many had rings cut off and lots of them were eaten because people were starving in Belgium and the guards were selling them. Also these birds were allowed to breed and different strains and families made Heinz 57's.
I visited one such holding area although there were no holding pens any longer I was able to talk with an old soldier who had been detailed to work at the pens. The pen was on the outskirts of Venlo on the German/Belgian border. This man told me that there were also birds from France and Holland in there too.
Anyway, Viktor told me that after the war was over all the fanciers were allowed to claim back a limited amount of birds and start up again, them receiving about 30 birds of their choice, again he stressed that all these birds were just all mixed up and of different parentage.
Because these fanciers were 'Top Men' and 'Aces' it was not long before they had established there own families again and as an example the birds that Fabry had received became know as Fabrys' same with Hansenne and so on............you will see that there could not possibly be any pure strains now, but because these fanciers had been masters at racing pigeons other fanciers had started to buy what they called Fabrys, which indeed was not really so and had originated from many other families started before the war.
If you were to look at any family of pigeons and I mean any families prior to the war you will find that there are no records in that pedigree for the war years for the reason I have just written. The latest Strain to hit the market Jos Thone..........Jos will provide you with any family you like from his lofts because like most other top men he is only intersted in breeding from winners and the familes these people cultivate are from any winner that fits into their family.
Over the years the Belgians have become aware that we in the UK are pedigree mad and we will buy any rubbish that has papers.
I recall being in Belgium at one loft where we had taken visitors (Belgian Tours) the
loft was owed by a very famous fancier know to everybody. His name I cannot divulge but it began with a B and ended with a T . Many of the fanciers we had taken were ordering YBs and the numbers were quite alarming. I could not see how they could possibly breed enough to fulfill all the orders they were taking. When I asked Mr. B's loft assistant how they would meet all these orders he replied ( and it was witnessed) We have many friends and many rings, we shall be okay!!!
Do you still think pedigrees are worth a carrot?
Chanco.
PS The Germans also took 1.5 million pigeons in the first world war so taking them in the second war was not new!

great reading chanco,you are a mine of information and i have really enjoyed reading your articles,please keep it up as im sure other members are finding it equally enjoyable.

As i have already said this man is the wizard

every thing he writes is spot on and to the point

Chanco

Can you put all this information into a book

Here is one person who would buy it as soon as

Don Webb wrote:

Chanco

Can you put all this information into a book

Here is one person who would buy it as soon as

Hi Don,
Thanks for those kind comments. Just now I am writing a book about my life as a young boy during the war years (to compliment my research on our family history...back to the 1600's now, but stuck) My experiences with the pigeons are probably on a par with hundreds of other 'old timers' and really nothing exceptional, but I am delighted that you gain something from them. Thank you.
Chanco.

Don Webb wrote:

Chanco

Can you put all this information into a book

Here is one person who would buy it as soon as

and i would buy it too don, i dont believe your writings are just the same as any other "old timer" as ive spoke to elderly fanciers and trust me....they are not like you malcolm. the information you are giving our members is very interesting and valuable, and i have read and re-read it over again.

malcolm, do you put your ybs onto the darkness as soon as they are parted from the parents? or do you have a spacific time when they go onto it?

DAVID wrote:

malcolm, do you put your ybs onto the darkness as soon as they are parted from the parents? or do you have a spacific time when they go onto it?

David, That's a question that I do not feel qualified to answer because I have not practised the darkness system, indeed, I would like to learn about it myself. I fully intended to 'dark' my YBs which were born very early February, but for the reasons that I have stated, my hospitalisation put paid to that idea and now some of my YBs are moulting like hell and I think my racing will be a case of 'Suck it and see'
Malcolm.

oh, sorry malcolm...i know you couldnt race dark this season but i was asking thinking you would still have your ideas on the subject

this video might be of interest to members.....

[quote="DAVID"]oh, sorry malcolm...i know you couldnt race dark this season but i was asking thinking you would still have your ideas on the subject[/quote

I will look into it and find out about darkness for next year.

You know I said I like tho think out side the box sometimes when it comes to pigeons.
Well I was talking to a guy yesterday who was moaning that his YB go fielding each time he lets them out (Twice a day).
He asked me what I thought? He went on to tell me that his birds feet are always covered in a cream coloured muddy powder each time they come back and he cannot stop them. Now I know that what they had on thier feet was Fly Ash which can only be got at a power station. I said to him that I wish mine would go there and he looked at me daft asking why.
I said well if you think about it they are getting some good excercise by doing so, once I had explained that the nearest power station is Ferrybridge which is 8 miles away which means they have to fly back as well it means they are doing 16 miles each time! as they are doing twice a day they are getting 32 miles of flying each day...................Yeah, he replied not bad is it no wonder they are fit!
He is not moaning now.
Malcolm.

Malcolm as it has already been said your comments are very good and if you were able to put your comments in book form then would you please contact me as i would more than gladly buy one from you


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CONSIDER AND PLEASE LET ME KNOW as this information you have provided to me is priceless

malcolm, what would fly ash do for the birds? would it be like minerals?

hi malcolm, have you had your ybs training today....cant remember if ive asked you already but how far into the moult are your ybs?with you pairing up in jan are they more or less through the body moult by now? and when you said you were letting them pair up would this alter the wing moult?

DAVID wrote:

malcolm, what would fly ash do for the birds? would it be like minerals?

Hi David, yes Fly Ash contains a lot of Potash and traces of Carbon so I would think that the pigeons like it very much. I live not far from Skelton Grange and my birds used to go there years ago.
Malcolm

Dave, did no training today, too busy! I bought myself another 8 widowhood boxes and built them up in the Aviary.
Also I got a bit of a disappointment today. I was promised some late breds from the famous Albert Babbibgton but today he told me that he cannot supply them which leaves me searching for some now. Oh well, that's life.